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Honest question

UWerentThereManUWerentThereMan Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 3,475
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How many families were split up at the border under the Obama administration.

I can’t find any official policy change under trump admin. This must have happened previously or did people just start making up policies on their own in the last 2 years?
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  • KaepskneeKaepsknee Member Posts: 14,750
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    How many families were split up at the border under the Obama administration.

    I can’t find any official policy change under trump admin. This must have happened previously or did people just start making up policies on their own in the last 2 years?

    You shut your whore mouth. Obama’s would NEVER do this to these divine people. Except he did all the way to Dec 2016.

    The media and the Dems clearly haven’t learned their lesson yet as they all cry on camera while never picking up a phone to get an immigration solution bill started in Congress.
  • SoutherndawgSoutherndawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 8,219
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    Obama did enforce the law for awhile, and he did take some heat for it. Political expediency won out under him though, he used his pen and phone to practically gut enforcement. Trump's admin is simply returning to enforcing the law. Fact is that there should only be negative consequences for illegals entering the country, not incentives. That's been a big part of the problem.
  • HardlyClothedHardlyClothed Member Posts: 937
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    Obama did enforce the law for awhile, and he did take some heat for it. Political expediency won out under him though, he used his pen and phone to practically gut enforcement. Trump's admin is simply returning to enforcing the law. Fact is that there should only be negative consequences for illegals entering the country, not incentives. That's been a big part of the problem.

    Unsurprisingly you have it completely wrong. Obama tripled ICE’s budget and deported more people than any other president in an effort to cut a deal with the right on immigraion, which will be a stain on his legacy.

    There is no law mandating that children be separated from their parents at the border. It is a “zero tolerance” policy change that was initiated in April. The Trump admin is being as cruel as possible to pressure democrats to give him a friendly immigration deal. Keep justifying 10,000+ migrant children held in cages not knowing when they will see their parents again, it’s a great look.
  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,614
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    Obama did enforce the law for awhile, and he did take some heat for it. Political expediency won out under him though, he used his pen and phone to practically gut enforcement. Trump's admin is simply returning to enforcing the law. Fact is that there should only be negative consequences for illegals entering the country, not incentives. That's been a big part of the problem.

    Unsurprisingly you have it completely wrong. Obama tripled ICE’s budget and deported more people than any other president in an effort to cut a deal with the right on immigraion, which will be a stain on his legacy.

    There is no law mandating that children be separated from their parents at the border. It is a “zero tolerance” policy change that was initiated in April. The Trump admin is being as cruel as possible to pressure democrats to give him a friendly immigration deal. Keep justifying 10,000+ migrant children held in cages not knowing when they will see their parents again, it’s a great look.
    hr, yk
  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 100,429
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    And your solution is?
  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,614
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    Senator Ben Sasse posted the best synopsis of the situation I've seen so far. Really interested to see what kind of solution he presents.

    Many Nebraskans this weekend asked me about the kids at the border. Here’s a short version of what I told them. This is a bit over-simplified, but these are broad brushstrokes of how I understand the situation at present:

    1) Family separation is wicked. It is harmful to kids and absolutely should NOT be the default U.S. policy. Americans are better than this.

    2) This bad new policy is a reaction against a bad old policy. The old policy was “catch-and-release.” Under catch-and-release, if someone made it to the border and claimed asylum (whether true or not, and most of the time it wasn’t true), they were released into the U.S. until a future hearing date. Many folks obviously don’t show up at these hearings, so this became a new pathway into the U.S.

    3) Catch-and-release – combined with inefficient deportation and other ineffective policies – created a magnet whereby lots of people came to the border who were not actually asylum-seekers. This magnet not only attracted illegal immigrants generally, but also produced an uptick in human trafficking across our border. (We now also have some limited evidence of jihadi recruiters spreading word about how to exploit the southwestern border.)

    4) Human trafficking organizations are not just evil; they’re also often smart. Many quickly learned the “magic words” they needed to say under catch-and-release to guarantee admission into the U.S. Because of this, some of the folks showing up at the border claiming to be families are not actually families. Some are a trafficker with one or more trafficked children. Sometimes border agents can identify this, but many times they aren’t sure.

    5) Any policy that incentivizes illegal immigration is terrible governance. But even more troubling is that catch-and-release rewarded traffickers, who knew they could easily get their victims to market in the U.S.

    6) This foolish catch-and-release policy had to be changed. But changing from catch-and-release does not require adopting the wicked family separation policy. The choice before the American people does not have to be “wicked versus foolish.”

    7) The administration’s decision to separate families is a new, discretionary choice. Anyone saying that their hands are tied or that the only conceivable way to fix the problem of catch-and-release is to rip families apart is flat wrong. There are other options available to them. The other options are all messy (given that some overly prescriptive judges have limited their administrative options), but there are ways to address this that are less bad than the policy of family separation they’ve chosen.

    8) There are many senior folks in the administration who hate this policy, and who want to do something better.

    9) But some in the administration have decided that this cruel policy increases their legislative leverage. This is wrong. Americans do not take children hostage, period.

    So what happens next? Obviously the Congress is broken and clearly bears much of the blame for a broken immigration system. We have many different problems clustered together: The border is too porous. Our asylum and refugee polices are too subject to executive branch whim, rather than clear legislative debate before the American people. We don’t have any coherent policy for dealing with kids who were brought here as minors but who have never known any home but the U.S. And more broadly, we have no long-term agreement about what levels of legal immigration we should want, or what kinds of workers we should prioritize. The Congress clearly bears much of the blame.

    But neither the horrors of family separation nor the stupidity of catch-and-release should be about leverage for a broader debate. We should start by tackling the specific problem before us in the narrowest way possible.

    The President should immediately end this family separation policy. And he should announce to the Congress the narrowest possible way problems like the FIores consent decree and related decisions (which bias policy toward release into the U.S. within three weeks after capture) can be resolved.

    I am also working on a possible solution with James Lankford of Oklahoma, a man of integrity who has been pouring great energy into addressing this human tragedy at the border.
  • Dude61Dude61 Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 1,225
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    There has been a 314% increase in adults showing up at the border with kids they are not related to

    That is not a family, that is child trafficking.
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
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    Dude61 said:

    There has been a 314% increase in adults showing up at the border with kids they are not related to

    That is not a family, that is child trafficking.

    How did I know you'd come up with some random stat to show why you must suck Trump's dick.
  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 30,412
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    dnc said:


    Obama did enforce the law for awhile, and he did take some heat for it. Political expediency won out under him though, he used his pen and phone to practically gut enforcement. Trump's admin is simply returning to enforcing the law. Fact is that there should only be negative consequences for illegals entering the country, not incentives. That's been a big part of the problem.

    Unsurprisingly you have it completely wrong. Obama tripled ICE’s budget and deported more people than any other president in an effort to cut a deal with the right on immigraion, which will be a stain on his legacy.

    There is no law mandating that children be separated from their parents at the border. It is a “zero tolerance” policy change that was initiated in April. The Trump admin is being as cruel as possible to pressure democrats to give him a friendly immigration deal. Keep justifying 10,000+ migrant children held in cages not knowing when they will see their parents again, it’s a great look.
    hr, yk

  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 30,412
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    2001400ex said:

    Dude61 said:

    There has been a 314% increase in adults showing up at the border with kids they are not related to

    That is not a family, that is child trafficking.

    How did I know you'd come up with some random stat to show why you must suck Trump's dick.
    Maybe you should watch something other than MSNBC. You'll find things aren't as random in your life as you think.
  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,614
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    edited June 2018
    Sledog said:

    dnc said:


    Obama did enforce the law for awhile, and he did take some heat for it. Political expediency won out under him though, he used his pen and phone to practically gut enforcement. Trump's admin is simply returning to enforcing the law. Fact is that there should only be negative consequences for illegals entering the country, not incentives. That's been a big part of the problem.

    Unsurprisingly you have it completely wrong. Obama tripled ICE’s budget and deported more people than any other president in an effort to cut a deal with the right on immigraion, which will be a stain on his legacy.

    There is no law mandating that children be separated from their parents at the border. It is a “zero tolerance” policy change that was initiated in April. The Trump admin is being as cruel as possible to pressure democrats to give him a friendly immigration deal. Keep justifying 10,000+ migrant children held in cages not knowing when they will see their parents again, it’s a great look.
    hr, yk

    Applying for assylum isn't a crime dumbass.

    And we're not talking about people going to jail, we're talking about them going into holding facilities where they await their applications being processed.

    It's a completely worthless argument, but not surprising considering the source.
  • HardlyClothedHardlyClothed Member Posts: 937
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    Sledog said:

    dnc said:


    Obama did enforce the law for awhile, and he did take some heat for it. Political expediency won out under him though, he used his pen and phone to practically gut enforcement. Trump's admin is simply returning to enforcing the law. Fact is that there should only be negative consequences for illegals entering the country, not incentives. That's been a big part of the problem.

    Unsurprisingly you have it completely wrong. Obama tripled ICE’s budget and deported more people than any other president in an effort to cut a deal with the right on immigraion, which will be a stain on his legacy.

    There is no law mandating that children be separated from their parents at the border. It is a “zero tolerance” policy change that was initiated in April. The Trump admin is being as cruel as possible to pressure democrats to give him a friendly immigration deal. Keep justifying 10,000+ migrant children held in cages not knowing when they will see their parents again, it’s a great look.
    hr, yk

    What if I told you that asylum seeking is a legal process recognized by US and international law
  • HardlyClothedHardlyClothed Member Posts: 937
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    dnc said:

    Senator Ben Sasse posted the best synopsis of the situation I've seen so far. Really interested to see what kind of solution he presents.

    Many Nebraskans this weekend asked me about the kids at the border. Here’s a short version of what I told them. This is a bit over-simplified, but these are broad brushstrokes of how I understand the situation at present:

    1) Family separation is wicked. It is harmful to kids and absolutely should NOT be the default U.S. policy. Americans are better than this.

    2) This bad new policy is a reaction against a bad old policy. The old policy was “catch-and-release.” Under catch-and-release, if someone made it to the border and claimed asylum (whether true or not, and most of the time it wasn’t true), they were released into the U.S. until a future hearing date. Many folks obviously don’t show up at these hearings, so this became a new pathway into the U.S.

    3) Catch-and-release – combined with inefficient deportation and other ineffective policies – created a magnet whereby lots of people came to the border who were not actually asylum-seekers. This magnet not only attracted illegal immigrants generally, but also produced an uptick in human trafficking across our border. (We now also have some limited evidence of jihadi recruiters spreading word about how to exploit the southwestern border.)

    4) Human trafficking organizations are not just evil; they’re also often smart. Many quickly learned the “magic words” they needed to say under catch-and-release to guarantee admission into the U.S. Because of this, some of the folks showing up at the border claiming to be families are not actually families. Some are a trafficker with one or more trafficked children. Sometimes border agents can identify this, but many times they aren’t sure.

    5) Any policy that incentivizes illegal immigration is terrible governance. But even more troubling is that catch-and-release rewarded traffickers, who knew they could easily get their victims to market in the U.S.

    6) This foolish catch-and-release policy had to be changed. But changing from catch-and-release does not require adopting the wicked family separation policy. The choice before the American people does not have to be “wicked versus foolish.”

    7) The administration’s decision to separate families is a new, discretionary choice. Anyone saying that their hands are tied or that the only conceivable way to fix the problem of catch-and-release is to rip families apart is flat wrong. There are other options available to them. The other options are all messy (given that some overly prescriptive judges have limited their administrative options), but there are ways to address this that are less bad than the policy of family separation they’ve chosen.

    8) There are many senior folks in the administration who hate this policy, and who want to do something better.

    9) But some in the administration have decided that this cruel policy increases their legislative leverage. This is wrong. Americans do not take children hostage, period.

    So what happens next? Obviously the Congress is broken and clearly bears much of the blame for a broken immigration system. We have many different problems clustered together: The border is too porous. Our asylum and refugee polices are too subject to executive branch whim, rather than clear legislative debate before the American people. We don’t have any coherent policy for dealing with kids who were brought here as minors but who have never known any home but the U.S. And more broadly, we have no long-term agreement about what levels of legal immigration we should want, or what kinds of workers we should prioritize. The Congress clearly bears much of the blame.

    But neither the horrors of family separation nor the stupidity of catch-and-release should be about leverage for a broader debate. We should start by tackling the specific problem before us in the narrowest way possible.

    The President should immediately end this family separation policy. And he should announce to the Congress the narrowest possible way problems like the FIores consent decree and related decisions (which bias policy toward release into the U.S. within three weeks after capture) can be resolved.

    I am also working on a possible solution with James Lankford of Oklahoma, a man of integrity who has been pouring great energy into addressing this human tragedy at the border.

    But he’s not going to do anything about it because he’s afraid of being primaried from the right
  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 30,412
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes
    dnc said:

    Sledog said:

    dnc said:


    Obama did enforce the law for awhile, and he did take some heat for it. Political expediency won out under him though, he used his pen and phone to practically gut enforcement. Trump's admin is simply returning to enforcing the law. Fact is that there should only be negative consequences for illegals entering the country, not incentives. That's been a big part of the problem.

    Unsurprisingly you have it completely wrong. Obama tripled ICE’s budget and deported more people than any other president in an effort to cut a deal with the right on immigraion, which will be a stain on his legacy.

    There is no law mandating that children be separated from their parents at the border. It is a “zero tolerance” policy change that was initiated in April. The Trump admin is being as cruel as possible to pressure democrats to give him a friendly immigration deal. Keep justifying 10,000+ migrant children held in cages not knowing when they will see their parents again, it’s a great look.
    hr, yk

    Applying for assylum isn't a crime dumbass.

    And we're not talking about people going to jail, we're talking about them going into holding facilities where they await their applications being processed.

    It's a completely worthless argument, but not surprising considering the source.
    Those being separated are not applying for asylum. They are illegally entering the country by crossing the border somewhere other than a border crossing. Many with children not their own. So you think it's OK for people to risk a child's life sending them through the desert etc. with Coyotes and possibly strangers or maybe friends? Oh and 80% plus are not eligible for asylum.
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    Sledog said:

    dnc said:


    Obama did enforce the law for awhile, and he did take some heat for it. Political expediency won out under him though, he used his pen and phone to practically gut enforcement. Trump's admin is simply returning to enforcing the law. Fact is that there should only be negative consequences for illegals entering the country, not incentives. That's been a big part of the problem.

    Unsurprisingly you have it completely wrong. Obama tripled ICE’s budget and deported more people than any other president in an effort to cut a deal with the right on immigraion, which will be a stain on his legacy.

    There is no law mandating that children be separated from their parents at the border. It is a “zero tolerance” policy change that was initiated in April. The Trump admin is being as cruel as possible to pressure democrats to give him a friendly immigration deal. Keep justifying 10,000+ migrant children held in cages not knowing when they will see their parents again, it’s a great look.
    hr, yk

    What if I told you their kids weren't put in jail. They are out living life generally with a parent or grandparent.
  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 30,412
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes
    2001400ex said:

    Sledog said:

    dnc said:


    Obama did enforce the law for awhile, and he did take some heat for it. Political expediency won out under him though, he used his pen and phone to practically gut enforcement. Trump's admin is simply returning to enforcing the law. Fact is that there should only be negative consequences for illegals entering the country, not incentives. That's been a big part of the problem.

    Unsurprisingly you have it completely wrong. Obama tripled ICE’s budget and deported more people than any other president in an effort to cut a deal with the right on immigraion, which will be a stain on his legacy.

    There is no law mandating that children be separated from their parents at the border. It is a “zero tolerance” policy change that was initiated in April. The Trump admin is being as cruel as possible to pressure democrats to give him a friendly immigration deal. Keep justifying 10,000+ migrant children held in cages not knowing when they will see their parents again, it’s a great look.
    hr, yk

    What if I told you their kids weren't put in jail. They are out living life generally with a parent or grandparent.
    Thanks for making my point AGAIN! These kids don't have a parent or guardian with them. They were sent to sneak in with God knows who in the hope that the parents will be allowed to follow.
  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,614
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes
    Sledog said:

    dnc said:

    Sledog said:

    dnc said:


    Obama did enforce the law for awhile, and he did take some heat for it. Political expediency won out under him though, he used his pen and phone to practically gut enforcement. Trump's admin is simply returning to enforcing the law. Fact is that there should only be negative consequences for illegals entering the country, not incentives. That's been a big part of the problem.

    Unsurprisingly you have it completely wrong. Obama tripled ICE’s budget and deported more people than any other president in an effort to cut a deal with the right on immigraion, which will be a stain on his legacy.

    There is no law mandating that children be separated from their parents at the border. It is a “zero tolerance” policy change that was initiated in April. The Trump admin is being as cruel as possible to pressure democrats to give him a friendly immigration deal. Keep justifying 10,000+ migrant children held in cages not knowing when they will see their parents again, it’s a great look.
    hr, yk

    Applying for assylum isn't a crime dumbass.

    And we're not talking about people going to jail, we're talking about them going into holding facilities where they await their applications being processed.

    It's a completely worthless argument, but not surprising considering the source.
    Those being separated are not applying for asylum. They are illegally entering the country by crossing the border somewhere other than a border crossing. Many with children not their own. So you think it's OK for people to risk a child's life sending them through the desert etc. with Coyotes and possibly strangers or maybe friends? Oh and 80% plus are not eligible for asylum.
    I don't feel like peeling through all the misinformation only for you to hit me with more misinformation so I'll be brief.

    You're wrong.

    Water is wet.
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