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Guns or Liberty?

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    TierbsHsotBoobsTierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680
    Combo Breaker 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Anniversary
    edited February 2018
    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
  • Options
    TierbsHsotBoobsTierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680
    Combo Breaker 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Anniversary
    doogie said:


    Here’s what the Florida Teacher of he Year has to say about it



    Okay, I’ll be the bad guy and say what no one else is brave enough to say, but wants to say. I’ll take all the criticism and attacks from everyone because you know what? I’m a TEACHER. I live this life daily. And I wouldn’t do anything else! But I also know daily I could end up in an active shooter situation.

    Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues, lack of discipline in the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID. What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?), lack of moral values, and yes, I’ll say it-violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives, as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school. Our kids don’t understand the permanency of death anymore!!!

    I grew up with guns. Everyone knows that. But you know what? My parents NEVER supported any bad behavior from me. I was terrified of doing something bad at school, as I would have not had a life until I corrected the problem and straightened my ass out. My parents invaded my life. They knew where I was ALL the time. They made me have a curfew. They made me wake them up when I got home. They made me respect their rules. They had full control of their house, and at any time could and would go through every inch of my bedroom, backpack, pockets, anything! Parents: it’s time to STEP UP! Be the parent that actually gives a crap! Be the annoying mom that pries and knows what your kid is doing. STOP being their friend. They have enough “friends” at school. Be their parent. Being the “cool mom” means not a damn thing when either your kid is dead or your kid kills other people because they were allowed to have their space and privacy in YOUR HOME. I’ll say it again. My home was filled with guns growing up. For God’s sake, my daddy was an 82nd Airborne Ranger who lost half his face serving our country. But you know what? I never dreamed of shooting anyone with his guns. I never dreamed of taking one! I was taught respect for human life, compassion, rules, common decency, and most of all, I was taught that until I moved out, my life and bedroom wasn’t mine…it was theirs. And they were going to know what was happening because they loved me and wanted the best for me.

    There. Say that I’m a horrible person. I didn’t bring up gun control, and I will refuse to debate it with anyone. This post wasn’t about gun control. This was me, loving the crap out of people and wanting the best for them. This was about my school babies and knowing that God created each one for greatness, and just wanting them to reach their futures. It’s about 20 years ago this year I started my teaching career. Violence was not this bad 20 years ago. Lack of compassion wasn’t this bad 20 years ago. And God knows 20 years ago that I wasn’t afraid daily to call a parent because I KNEW that 9 out of 10 would cuss me out, tell me to go to Hell, call the news on me, call the school board on me, or post all over FaceBook about me because I called to let them know what their child chose to do at school…because they are a NORMAL kid!!!!!

    Those 17 lives mattered. When are we going to take our own responsibility seriously?


  • Options
    TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,747
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Comment
    Blackie said:

    Why were there less shootings in the 80's and 90's?

    there are far less shootings now than there were in the 80s and 90s
    Let me just point out to the statistically impaired and retarded that this statement is utterly invalid and wrong without defining the time period that constitutes "now."

    We are so fucked.
  • Options
    SledogSledog Member Posts: 30,709
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
    Just your doctor.
  • Options
    2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes

    2001400ex said:

    doogie said:

    Seems to me, these attacks are over in a matter of a few minutes. Without armed support in the schools themselves, or the threat a school “ could” have armed support ( as compared with a badge proudly proclaiming THIS school is unprotected) not sure what the detectors would accomplish.

    How about a badge proudly warning: THIS school has Trained Marshall’s on site who MAY be armed.

    I don't know if you've noticed. But the people that do this shit are not mentally there. They don't give a shit what any sign says.
    I'll say this one more time: It's not likely to prevent shootings, but is very likely to limit the damage and save lives. If you don't get it by now, you never will.
    Just like better background checks and limiting magazine size would reduce the number of deaths.
  • Options
    TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,747
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Comment

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
    If it isn't slavery, it's Hitler. If it isn't Hitler, it's slavery.
    If it isn't racism, it's Naziism. If it isn't Naziism, it's racism.
    If it isn't the slave owner, it's the institution of slavery. If it isn't the institution of slavery, it's the slave-owner.

    What about the 3000 black slave owners in the U.S.? Were they honorable men caught up in a sinister institution? Or were they just assholes, like the white slave owners?
  • Options
    GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,481
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    Standard Supporter

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
    *amended
  • Options
    TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,747
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Comment
    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    doogie said:

    Seems to me, these attacks are over in a matter of a few minutes. Without armed support in the schools themselves, or the threat a school “ could” have armed support ( as compared with a badge proudly proclaiming THIS school is unprotected) not sure what the detectors would accomplish.

    How about a badge proudly warning: THIS school has Trained Marshall’s on site who MAY be armed.

    I don't know if you've noticed. But the people that do this shit are not mentally there. They don't give a shit what any sign says.
    I'll say this one more time: It's not likely to prevent shootings, but is very likely to limit the damage and save lives. If you don't get it by now, you never will.
    Just like better background checks and limiting magazine size would reduce the number of deaths.
    Perhaps you missed my endorsement of both before your knee jerked.
  • Options
    TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,747
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Comment

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?

    Oh, you meant something completely different. My bad.
  • Options
    dncdnc Member Posts: 56,614
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
    If it isn't slavery, it's Hitler. If it isn't Hitler, it's slavery.
    If it isn't racism, it's Naziism. If it isn't Naziism, it's racism.
    If it isn't the slave owner, it's the institution of slavery. If it isn't the institution of slavery, it's the slave-owner.

    What about the 3000 black slave owners in the U.S.? Were they honorable men caught up in a sinister institution?
    Or were they just assholes, like the white slave owners?
    Most of them "owned" a husband, wife or child because the only way to get them out of slavery was to purchase them. They weren't actually enslaving their people by purchasing them, they were rescuing them.

    But yeah, there were some Fast Strategy bruthas who owned other FSB's. Those guys were assholes.
  • Options
    TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,747
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Comment
    dnc said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
    If it isn't slavery, it's Hitler. If it isn't Hitler, it's slavery.
    If it isn't racism, it's Naziism. If it isn't Naziism, it's racism.
    If it isn't the slave owner, it's the institution of slavery. If it isn't the institution of slavery, it's the slave-owner.

    What about the 3000 black slave owners in the U.S.? Were they honorable men caught up in a sinister institution?
    Or were they just assholes, like the white slave owners?
    Most of them "owned" a husband, wife or child because the only way to get them out of slavery was to purchase them. They weren't actually enslaving their people by purchasing them, they were rescuing them.

    But yeah, there were some Fast Strategy bruthas who owned other FSB's. Those guys were assholes.
    @Dennis_DeYoung: Your genie is out of your bottle.
  • Options
    BearsWiinBearsWiin Member Posts: 4,947
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Comment
    2001400ex said:

    doogie said:


    Here’s what the Florida Teacher of he Year has to say about it



    Okay, I’ll be the bad guy and say what no one else is brave enough to say, but wants to say. I’ll take all the criticism and attacks from everyone because you know what? I’m a TEACHER. I live this life daily. And I wouldn’t do anything else! But I also know daily I could end up in an active shooter situation.

    Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues, lack of discipline in the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID. What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?), lack of moral values, and yes, I’ll say it-violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives, as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school. Our kids don’t understand the permanency of death anymore!!!

    I grew up with guns. Everyone knows that. But you know what? My parents NEVER supported any bad behavior from me. I was terrified of doing something bad at school, as I would have not had a life until I corrected the problem and straightened my ass out. My parents invaded my life. They knew where I was ALL the time. They made me have a curfew. They made me wake them up when I got home. They made me respect their rules. They had full control of their house, and at any time could and would go through every inch of my bedroom, backpack, pockets, anything! Parents: it’s time to STEP UP! Be the parent that actually gives a crap! Be the annoying mom that pries and knows what your kid is doing. STOP being their friend. They have enough “friends” at school. Be their parent. Being the “cool mom” means not a damn thing when either your kid is dead or your kid kills other people because they were allowed to have their space and privacy in YOUR HOME. I’ll say it again. My home was filled with guns growing up. For God’s sake, my daddy was an 82nd Airborne Ranger who lost half his face serving our country. But you know what? I never dreamed of shooting anyone with his guns. I never dreamed of taking one! I was taught respect for human life, compassion, rules, common decency, and most of all, I was taught that until I moved out, my life and bedroom wasn’t mine…it was theirs. And they were going to know what was happening because they loved me and wanted the best for me.

    There. Say that I’m a horrible person. I didn’t bring up gun control, and I will refuse to debate it with anyone. This post wasn’t about gun control. This was me, loving the crap out of people and wanting the best for them. This was about my school babies and knowing that God created each one for greatness, and just wanting them to reach their futures. It’s about 20 years ago this year I started my teaching career. Violence was not this bad 20 years ago. Lack of compassion wasn’t this bad 20 years ago. And God knows 20 years ago that I wasn’t afraid daily to call a parent because I KNEW that 9 out of 10 would cuss me out, tell me to go to Hell, call the news on me, call the school board on me, or post all over FaceBook about me because I called to let them know what their child chose to do at school…because they are a NORMAL kid!!!!!

    Those 17 lives mattered. When are we going to take our own responsibility seriously?

    What happens when they see your and sledog posts on here and determines you mentally unfit to possess a fun. And take your guns away. How do you feel about mental health then?

    BTW, she's wrong on violent crime 20 years ago and she's a pussy if she can't handle a parent that's pissed because she's a bitch.
    Of course she is. In her defense, 20 years ago she didn't have the internets and social media showing her all the violent crime shit that was going on. And it's nothing new for older folk to bitch about moral decay of youth compared to when We Were Young; Socrates was complaining about the youth of Athens 2400 years ago.
  • Options
    SledogSledog Member Posts: 30,709
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    edited February 2018
    2001400ex said:

    doogie said:


    Here’s what the Florida Teacher of he Year has to say about it



    Okay, I’ll be the bad guy and say what no one else is brave enough to say, but wants to say. I’ll take all the criticism and attacks from everyone because you know what? I’m a TEACHER. I live this life daily. And I wouldn’t do anything else! But I also know daily I could end up in an active shooter situation.

    Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues, lack of discipline in the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID. What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?), lack of moral values, and yes, I’ll say it-violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives, as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school. Our kids don’t understand the permanency of death anymore!!!

    I grew up with guns. Everyone knows that. But you know what? My parents NEVER supported any bad behavior from me. I was terrified of doing something bad at school, as I would have not had a life until I corrected the problem and straightened my ass out. My parents invaded my life. They knew where I was ALL the time. They made me have a curfew. They made me wake them up when I got home. They made me respect their rules. They had full control of their house, and at any time could and would go through every inch of my bedroom, backpack, pockets, anything! Parents: it’s time to STEP UP! Be the parent that actually gives a crap! Be the annoying mom that pries and knows what your kid is doing. STOP being their friend. They have enough “friends” at school. Be their parent. Being the “cool mom” means not a damn thing when either your kid is dead or your kid kills other people because they were allowed to have their space and privacy in YOUR HOME. I’ll say it again. My home was filled with guns growing up. For God’s sake, my daddy was an 82nd Airborne Ranger who lost half his face serving our country. But you know what? I never dreamed of shooting anyone with his guns. I never dreamed of taking one! I was taught respect for human life, compassion, rules, common decency, and most of all, I was taught that until I moved out, my life and bedroom wasn’t mine…it was theirs. And they were going to know what was happening because they loved me and wanted the best for me.

    There. Say that I’m a horrible person. I didn’t bring up gun control, and I will refuse to debate it with anyone. This post wasn’t about gun control. This was me, loving the crap out of people and wanting the best for them. This was about my school babies and knowing that God created each one for greatness, and just wanting them to reach their futures. It’s about 20 years ago this year I started my teaching career. Violence was not this bad 20 years ago. Lack of compassion wasn’t this bad 20 years ago. And God knows 20 years ago that I wasn’t afraid daily to call a parent because I KNEW that 9 out of 10 would cuss me out, tell me to go to Hell, call the news on me, call the school board on me, or post all over FaceBook about me because I called to let them know what their child chose to do at school…because they are a NORMAL kid!!!!!

    Those 17 lives mattered. When are we going to take our own responsibility seriously?

    What happens when they see your and sledog posts on here and determines you mentally unfit to possess a fun. And take your guns away. How do you feel about mental health then?

    BTW, she's wrong on violent crime 20 years ago and she's a pussy if she can't handle a parent that's pissed because she's a bitch.
    Hondo has gone full libtard. Little chance of that Hondo. I'm good in all 50 states. Of course since I disagree with a liberal I must be crazy. Surprised you didn't call me a racist too. Is getting your ass whipped on the boreds really causing you to come unhinged or is it that time of the month? Maybe you forgot to pay your Saul Alinsky fan club dues and they took back your commie decoder ring. Whatever it is get over it, all this vaginal bleeding is gross and hard to look at.
  • Options
    SwayeSwaye Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 41,062
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    Founders Club
    Blackie said:

    dnc said:

    dnc said:

    doogie said:

    Seems to me, these attacks are over in a matter of a few minutes. Without armed support in the schools themselves, or the threat a school “ could” have armed support ( as compared with a badge proudly proclaiming THIS school is unprotected) not sure what the detectors would accomplish.

    How about a badge proudly warning: THIS school has Trained Marshall’s on site who MAY be armed.

    Well, if the fuckers can't get the guns in the schools, it's kind of hard to shoot up the fucking school, don't you think?

    The obvious question is how do you implement in such a way that the metal detectors actually prevent someone who is packing from just pulling the gun out and saying "let me through the detectors or I shoot"? I suppose there's a way that if there's a metal detector breach at some sort of pre school entrance then it locks down the school automatically but that's some serious technological infrastructure to add, which brings us back to funding. Also makes it feel like you're dropping your kids off at prison everyday, but yeah.

    I think we'll chinevitably end up there, just not sure how soon.

    And once schools are off the top of the "shoot up the world" list I assume these fuckers will move on to the next chinstitution. Churches? Chinstitutions of Higher Discussion, er Learning?

    Fixing the school problem is important, but probably just a bandaid.
    I'm more about 'doing something' than perpetually wringing our hands. The same shit that was in place in 1983 is still in place today. Save maybe some bump-stock laws. Woo-hoo. Awesome work.

    Every high school in this country could ax one administrator and pay for a metal detector. EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THEM.

    If somebody has a better idea on what to do RIGHT NOW - fire away (no pun intended). But we (?) will continue to dick around and do nothing and more kids will get shot at every single week.

    EIGHTEEN shootings in 6 weeks so far this year.



    I'm not saying the metal detectors would cost too much, just saying the tech to lock the entire school down if there's a metal detector breach would be cost preventative. And without that tech, schools remain the primary target, it means shooters have to wait until everyone is in their classrooms, then make their entrance by taking out the one or two people watching the metal detectors.

    But having the detectors in place at least chincreases the degree of difficulty, which I'm all for.
    If you're serious about eliminating the threat at schools as much as possible (and you're not removing every last gun in existence because duh that's never happening), you lock down every school. Entry is only gained through entrances with some metal detectors or similar and armed security at those entrances. All other doors are exit-only. Granted, you create a target-rich environment at the line of kids waiting to get into the school.

    Banning --enter scary looking type of gun here--, limiting magazine size, requiring full background/mental illness checks for gun purchases, increasing waiting periods, whatever other feel-good criteria that suits your virtue-signalling fancy is not going to stop the attacks.
    Smartest guy in the room right here.
  • Options
    Mosster47Mosster47 Member Posts: 6,246
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    Blackie said:

    dnc said:

    dnc said:

    doogie said:

    Seems to me, these attacks are over in a matter of a few minutes. Without armed support in the schools themselves, or the threat a school “ could” have armed support ( as compared with a badge proudly proclaiming THIS school is unprotected) not sure what the detectors would accomplish.

    How about a badge proudly warning: THIS school has Trained Marshall’s on site who MAY be armed.

    Well, if the fuckers can't get the guns in the schools, it's kind of hard to shoot up the fucking school, don't you think?

    The obvious question is how do you implement in such a way that the metal detectors actually prevent someone who is packing from just pulling the gun out and saying "let me through the detectors or I shoot"? I suppose there's a way that if there's a metal detector breach at some sort of pre school entrance then it locks down the school automatically but that's some serious technological infrastructure to add, which brings us back to funding. Also makes it feel like you're dropping your kids off at prison everyday, but yeah.

    I think we'll chinevitably end up there, just not sure how soon.

    And once schools are off the top of the "shoot up the world" list I assume these fuckers will move on to the next chinstitution. Churches? Chinstitutions of Higher Discussion, er Learning?

    Fixing the school problem is important, but probably just a bandaid.
    I'm more about 'doing something' than perpetually wringing our hands. The same shit that was in place in 1983 is still in place today. Save maybe some bump-stock laws. Woo-hoo. Awesome work.

    Every high school in this country could ax one administrator and pay for a metal detector. EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THEM.

    If somebody has a better idea on what to do RIGHT NOW - fire away (no pun intended). But we (?) will continue to dick around and do nothing and more kids will get shot at every single week.

    EIGHTEEN shootings in 6 weeks so far this year.



    I'm not saying the metal detectors would cost too much, just saying the tech to lock the entire school down if there's a metal detector breach would be cost preventative. And without that tech, schools remain the primary target, it means shooters have to wait until everyone is in their classrooms, then make their entrance by taking out the one or two people watching the metal detectors.

    But having the detectors in place at least chincreases the degree of difficulty, which I'm all for.
    If you're serious about eliminating the threat at schools as much as possible (and you're not removing every last gun in existence because duh that's never happening), you lock down every school. Entry is only gained through entrances with some metal detectors or similar and armed security at those entrances. All other doors are exit-only. Granted, you create a target-rich environment at the line of kids waiting to get into the school.

    Banning --enter scary looking type of gun here--, limiting magazine size, requiring full background/mental illness checks for gun purchases, increasing waiting periods, whatever other feel-good criteria that suits your virtue-signalling fancy is not going to stop the attacks.
    Are sub 18 year old people the only ones that matter?

    Roseburg was a college. Do we metal detect colleges too? I'm sure ASU and their 90k+ students would love that fiasco.

    Vegas was an outdoor concert. The church shootings, San Bernadino was an office party, etc. etc.

    The gun nuts and NRA are fighting a losing battle like with civil rights. The younger generations have less and less to do with guns in a recreational/hunting sense and see them more as WMD's. They've had two decades to come up with a sensible plan that benefits all parties involved and instead they've taken the Sledoog double down retard approach. The Boomers are all gone in ten years and the crazy right wing goes with it.
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    YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 33,892
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    Swaye said:

    The yearly gun control debate on HH. I wait with much anticipation for this thread every year.

    You mean to say the weekly debate.
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    Mosster47Mosster47 Member Posts: 6,246
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    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
    Funny story, I did my ancestor thing earlier this month and I traced us back pre-America to Virginia so, we aren't immigrants, we are founders, and we owned a fuck ton of slaves. I found some of the county records of farms and registered slaves on them. We had them in Viginia, we had 640 acres and 21 slaves in Tennessee, etc.

    Having said that, my great great great grandpa who owned those 21 slaves had one son who fought for the Union, so there you have it. Not racist!
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    PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 41,811
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes
    Mosster47 said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
    Funny story, I did my ancestor thing earlier this month and I traced us back pre-America to Virginia so, we aren't immigrants, we are founders, and we owned a fuck ton of slaves. I found some of the county records of farms and registered slaves on them. We had them in Viginia, we had 640 acres and 21 slaves in Tennessee, etc.

    Having said that, my great great great grandpa who owned those 21 slaves had one son who fought for the Union, so there you have it. Not racist!
    Or maybe the kid was a spy for the Confederacy.

    Still racist. Pay your reparations.

    The Throbber's ancestors were non-slave owning irish mick laborers. Send me some money, too. Bitcoin. Encrypted. No trace.

    TIA



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    pawzpawz Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 18,758
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    pawz said:

    My biggest fear is we are all being played by a much larger, sinister threat. Are those clamoring for gun control a fan of what has manifested from the passage of the Patriot Act?

    Don't forget, when Hitler took over Germany he made a point of doing so under the guise and authority of the standing Republic's constitution.

    Our current system gave us two "choices" DJT and HRC. The best America has to offer??

    The loss of life - especially a child's - is never acceptable. But as the noose tightens on the liberty we've come to take for granted, there is so much more at stake.

    Using the rise of The Third Reich in a discussion about 2nd Amendment Rights is one heck of a lousy historical analogy to make. Fascist dictatorship took hold in Germany because the country had no track record of successful democratic intuitions in its history. It didn't have anything to do with who owned guns or did not.
    The poont is that our democratic republic is still fragile evidenced by the two fucktards nominated to run. The Third Reich took rights from it's citizenry a little at a time - and never gave them back.

    We must ensure a viable, pragmatic way of saying fuck off. Look what happened when the first BLM (Bureau of Land Management) picked a fight with a few hundred armed cowboys.

    The people's will reigned.
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